Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: If you're looking for the skills and tools to succeed in real estate investing, you've come to the right place.
This show is about breaking through barriers, breaking through limiting beliefs, and breaking through to the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing. You're listening to the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing Podcast. And now, here are your hosts, Rob Brake and Quinton d'. Souza.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for joining us again. It's a pleasure to be doing this on a beautiful sunny day here in Costa Rica, where I am. I know you guys aren't there, but it's been, we've had some great weather here in the last little while, so I've just been thrilled with that because the, the rainy season was messed up last year, and so I'm hoping to get a, A proper one this year.
[00:00:52] Speaker C: A proper rainy season.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: A proper rainy season.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: Well, there's a proper rainy season in Costa Rica, dude.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Well, it starts right, right around now. And it'll rain in the afternoons, but the mornings will always be nice. And then in September gets a little bit worse. And then October, the same thing, a little bit worse. November, November, the beginning of November is usually pretty bad. Like, it'll usually rain, like, substantially through that time, and then it just, and then historically it clears right up after that, and you won't see any rain until, like, around June again or something like that. But last year, it rained right through November, right through December, some of January. It was crazy. It was very.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: So we're hoping to get things back on track this year. If I have anything to say about it, that's the way it'll go back to normal.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: I'm sure you have lots to say about it. It doesn't mean you can do anything about it, but I'm sure you have lots to say. I've been, I've been seeing your nice sunset pictures of Costa Rica there, Ro.
You know, those have been really nice to share on your Instagram.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: So I like, it's not like I'm posting sunset pictures all the time. I'm not that guy. I did it one time. Just showing the progression through the night, you know.
[00:02:12] Speaker C: Sure, sure, whatever.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: And sunsets. Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: No meals either. Yeah.
[00:02:20] Speaker C: I do that. Unfortunately.
I've been, yeah, sometimes. Because I, I don't know why. I just really like to, if I, if I get a really good meal and it looks really cool, I, I, I don't know. I post them sometimes. I admit it.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: People do it. All right. You know, it's not uncommon. You're not you're not alone.
Yeah, I just wanted to remind people I've been putting out a lot of videos, like house tour videos. I toured a uh, cool new development the other day.
And if you want to see any of those, you can go over to Point Break Homes on Facebook, Point Break Homes, Costa Rica on Facebook and just Point break homes on YouTube and check some of that stuff out.
[00:03:04] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Nice. What about you Quinn? What's new?
[00:03:07] Speaker C: We're just solving problems. We, we switched over our backend property management system and we used to use it to do ACH and we paid our joint venture partners. We used to pay them through this back end system when we're doing dividends, whatever, right. And we got rid of that system and now we did. We didn't have a way to pay our joint venture partners. So all of a sudden we're scrambling, grabbing checks again, trying to figure, figure out how to do it. We figured it out. We were able to replace it with a different pad system so that we could get the payments over to the partners. But it was a bit of a, a rigamarole there and, and then you know, with, with one partner that got missed. We had like a five thousand dollar payment for like cash flow payment for him and I was just like I, I don't even think I can do this on my E transfer. My E transfer limit got, got messed up. So like. Because it doesn't, can't do that. So anyways, we'll figure it out. That's, that's what I.
The last hour.
But yeah, it's, it's always part of, you know, every day is different.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Right.
[00:04:25] Speaker C: There's always something. And I'm getting ready for my trip next week. I'm a little nervous, super excited.
Doing Mount Blanc, doing a climb, you know, mountaineering. It's going to be very different than the, the typical hikes that I've done. This is really, we're doing more ice axes, crampons, ladders, all of that stuff. So it's going to be a little bit more exciting. A little bit. Yeah. There's an area, the Grand Coulier, which is like where there's rock fall all the time and some of the rocks are like the size of your, all the way up to your hip and they'll, they'll kill you. So it's a very kind of dangerous coolie as you, as you go across to get to the, the summit. So it's going to be very, a little nerv. Nerve wracking. Very interesting.
You know, I like to push myself to get out of my comfort zone in different parts of my life. And, and I found that when I do hard things, hard physical things, I find that it also helps me to get past like all the business hard things seem pretty easy when you, when you kind of push yourself to do something like that. And so anyways, I'll be off next week doing that and if I, if I don't survive, just make sure that my kids know that I love them and I'll be fine. I'll be fine.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Well, it's funny because those are the posts that I always see from you. It's like adventure after adventure after adventure with you.
So you know, it's hard to, it's hard to, it's hard to like pin you down to get one of these podcasts done.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:11] Speaker C: After that, after France, I'm gonna be headed to Banff for a week or a week or 10 days, something like that.
So it'll be that, that'll be good. And then we have Durham REI meeting at the beginning of September.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: So what day is that?
[00:06:29] Speaker C: I have no idea. Second, second Wednesday in September. I'll have to, I have to look it up. I think it's second Wednesday. 10th. 10th.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Oh, I'm looking at the wrong month.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: Yeah, September 10th. There we go.
Awesome. So we have a, a great guest for today. So.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:49] Speaker C: Yes we do. So I'm gonna just do a quick intro. Dave Knight. He's a seasons real real estate investor developer community leader with experience across Canada in the U.S. he is a partner in SDG Canada where he leads capital strategy and for purpose driven infill missing middle housing projects.
His 15 years of active duty as an active duty police officer, Dave brings a rare combination of deeply rooted integrity, trust based leadership and real world problem solving for the developer space. He's also the founder of First Responders Wealth Network, a national platform and podcast that empowers first responders through throughout Canada and the U.S. toward financial literacy and real estate invest across multiple asset classes. He's also the co founder of the Missing Middle conference focused on convening the most insightful and action oriented voices in housing from developers and planners to institutional leaders and policymakers. And that conference is coming up in September, Dave.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Yeah, September 12th. So we're just a few weeks away as we record this.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, we got like, well this is, we'll get this out before days actually so. Oh wow. They'll have a quite a bit of time hopefully to get signed up for that. And, and let's just say they're listening afterwards. Is there any kind of platform that they can reach out to to see more information on what it was. What?
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:27] Speaker C: Missing Middle Conference.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Speaker C: Is there a website?
[00:08:29] Speaker A: There is. You can go to the MMC CAT and that'll have all the information there, depending on when you see this. And I'm sure things are going really well. So this is our first one. We've had a really amazing feedback and tickets and sales are going great and sponsorships and speakers are somehow all saying yes. So that's working out well. And so we may do it again next year. And there's even talks of maybe doing it out in Alberta, maybe late spring, early fall. So cross our fingers. So I'm sure we'll keep going.
Yeah.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: We'll hear more about what it's all about coming up here. But let's get a little bit of.
You've been on the show before.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: I have.
I don't know if it's once or twice, but I think it might have even been twice. I can't remember. But I believe your ex partner was on here before.
So, Quinton, this is our first time.
[00:09:22] Speaker C: I'm the troublemaker.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Hey, you know what's funny is I've actually recognized you. I've heard some of your stuff, so I'm very familiar with you. Oh, cool. And I. Yeah. So anyway, it's. It's great to be on. And I know, Rob, I don't know if you remember this, but last time I was on, I shared a story. One of my. Like, I used to listen to you guys, you know, this podcast, because you guys have been on for how long now? Like, it's coming up.
Seriously, that's. That's crazy. So when. When you guys were first on, you had someone on that talk that spoke about student rentals, and I actually reached out to them after and got some coaching, and that was kind of my segue into the student rental market of getting a coach. So it's kind of cool how things come full circle. But that's awesome.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: Is that Tim? Was that Tim?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: It was, yeah. Tim Collins. Yeah.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: No way. You know what? I've been talking to him on, like, another forum on covered call ETFs and. And that sort of thing.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: What's he doing? Is he at west now or something?
[00:10:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, he's in the West Coast. Everything's such a small community, everybody.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: This community is crazy. Super small. For sure. Yeah. Which is. Which is a good thing.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. For sure. You know, who's doing stuff and who's not. But yeah, but yeah, Tim's. Tim's a good guy and he's really interesting. He's really focused on that, on that side of things now. Just earning income with the capital that he's built. But yeah.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: So after all this, we should have him on there too sometime.
[00:10:46] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. For sure.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, he's been on before too actually, but that was a long time ago. He was like one of our, I think he was one of our first.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Guests that would have been back. I can, I think we're around 20, 15 or so, maybe in and around.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Right. So yeah, so yeah, he would have been one of our first guests on.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Very cool.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Anyway, yes. So you started out there, didn't you? Were buying student rentals.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah, so I mean before that I, I had a single, my first property. I'll just give you the kind of 30 second background. So. Yeah, first property was a single family home. Eventually tapped in the equity, got another townhouse in the Burlington area and then you know, learned about forced appreciation and cash flow and all that stuff. Got into student rentals, specifically for cash flow and then eventually got into renovations. I converted single family homes into two, three, four units. I was very heavily focused on that in Hamilton for some time and then kind of took a bit of a break, a step back, you know, with everything with interest rates, market, that sort of thing, kind of decided to pivot and then took some time learning and again educating, taking courses and you know, finding mentors and that sort of thing into this missing middle development space. So that's kind of where I am now and everything I do I try and lean in on when I do it. So now it's crazy. We got combined with myself and my partners, we got 96 units, townhouses or walk up apartments in the. Under construction currently or in the pipeline right now mostly up in or all up in Barrie.
So we're creating a little bit of a village up there. We call it Clapperton Village. So I'm sure you'll see in our socials pushing that fairly soon as we start getting to completion here in the next little while.
So yeah, so all of our attention is up there and still working full time as a police officer. So very, very busy, as you said, coming in like a wrecking ball or whatever it was you made a comment. They're always doing 100 things all the way up until. Till your scheduled appointments. That's pretty much me on a daily basis.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So this is my breathing point. So we can hang out now.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Oh, that's good. That's, that's fun. And so, you know, a lot of people have the question like, what is this missing middle housing? Like, like why is it so important?
[00:13:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean technically the, the definition and I guess can be anywhere between a duplex all the way up until, you know, the mid rise.
So the way I was always told was it's a little bit too big for the small guys and it's too big or too small for the big guys. And it's kind of this area, this niche that's kind of been forgotten a little bit.
And there's a huge opportunity, there's a huge momentum and attention on it right now. I think there's a lot of things changing from the top federal down to provincial and even municipalities. Changing zoning, changing densities, changing as of. Right.
Number of units per lot, that sort of thing. So the ability to take an average lot and now, you know, densify or you know, even just add a coach house in the back for, you know, a normal family is, is, is available more now than ever. So it's not just like me coming in as a real estate investor in our group sdg, we're coming in and you know, acquiring properties and optimizing the space. It's, it can be from just your mom and pop who want to add in another additional unit in the back. So, so yeah, that's, that's essentially in a nutshell, missing middle is that scope of, of units.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Okay. And your company, they, they focus on the missing middle.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I have two partners, Card, Dick and Jimmy. I know they couldn't make it today, but basically they, they actually started the business before me. They had a property up in Barrie and then I met them through another. I don't know if you know Darren Varros, he's another missing middle developer.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: So good friend of ours, just on the podcast the two or two episodes ago.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Oh, nice. Okay, nice. Yeah, good dude. Actually. He's the MC and he's hosting our conference. So he's gonna be the MC and moderator. So.
Yeah, good dude for sure. Anyway, so he, he introduced us indirectly and, and then I kind of came on with them and next thing you know we got one property after another and here we are now with the boat. I think we have nine, nine properties right now.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: So in the company.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: In the company, yeah. So it's just us three and we have a couple full time staff, we have part time cfo, we have, you know, we have assistance overseas here as well.
It's crazy. Like it literally, like I'm not joking when I say I could barely realistically hear him and I'm not even just, you know, throwing fluff. Like it would be very difficult for me to do this, even just one on my own. It would be almost a full time job. So my other two partners, they're completely full time and it literally takes an army, you know, assistants, you know, admin accounting, bookkeepers like all that to literally make all this work. So it's, there's a lot going on in the background to make 90, 90 units function and, and operate and come to fruition.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: So you said all of them are in Barry. Barry, Ontario?
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Yes, correct.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: So what was the, what was the reasoning behind that? Because this is nine properties spread out all in Barry. So.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, not so spread out actually. We, so we strategically purchased a number of properties on one street.
So we have, what is it, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 properties, about 50, 50, 60 units all on one street.
So kind of dial it back a little bit. We're taking single family lots, large lots, and we're severing them into two or three. And then up in Barry, part of the strategy was they allow four units as of right on per lot. So we're able to take anything from you know, an eight unit depending on the width. If we can squeeze three, three lots out and then we can get 12 units in there.
The first property was a 10 unit walk up and then the remaining we're doing stack towns.
So just higher and best use and just a cheaper build than the walk ups. And, and yeah, so with that we've created literally a community and think of almost like you know, a mini community essentially that have shared amenities. So each lot, each unit has amenities that people can share within the community.
And we're also bringing more of a social aspect to it, multi generational kind of thought process and kind of a mixed use type of type of building. And we're working with some other non profit agencies and stuff like that, just trying to create more social impact rather than just another, you know, unit for lease. So we're, we're, we focused in Barry for one. The, the rents was, was very strong. The, the point of entry was, was very good compared to the ratio of a purchase price, rent and also medium house income as well. So the, you know, the main factors that we look at as everyday investors was there, the foundation was there, fundamentals were there and the vacancy and the cap rates and everything just kind of jived. And to be honest, it's my partners. They introduced me to Barry. I had never. To be honest, I really wasn't that familiar with Barry. I'd driven past it going to Muskoka. I had some guys going to George in college now and then, you know, back in, when I was younger visit. But I didn't really have much attention in that area. But the more I'm there, the more I visit. Like I mentioned, I was just there before I even came here today.
It's a beautiful city. It's right against the water.
Like I said, we got a nice beautiful marina. They're really rejuvenating the downtown.
Apparently they're in works of a large soccer stadium, a big theater downtown.
They have the goats, the go train going right down. So it's a direct line into Union. So they have a lot of great fundamentals there as well. And their outlook on population growth is, is obviously pretty attractive too. So.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: So any of the regulations as far as like what's allowed on the lot, is that new that's just been implemented there?
[00:19:16] Speaker A: No. So where we're going, we're as of right. The zoning is actually as of right. So technically you can do stack towns, walk up ap.
There is a height restriction however, you can do those things. So the, the, the use and the zoning was already in place. So that was one of the attractive areas. Our time to get to minor committee of adjustments and through the entitlement process was significantly less compared to obviously having to do a traditional zoning change which could take, I mean it could take a year, it could take two years, a hundred thousand more, you know, whatever, depending on the situation. So our, our speed to shovels in the ground is significantly higher in this area. But that was why we were drawn to the area as well.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Significantly lower or.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Sorry, lower. Yeah.
Lower time frame but more higher efficiency, I should say. Yeah.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: So would you say that, that, that Barrie has more favorable regulations than other municipalities? Have you looked at other municipalities?
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I have, I have Toronto, I mean Scarborough, like they're changing.
I mean there's just some recent rules there. They got six now. Yeah, six as of Right. In the major.
So they don't have that. However, I feel like as a whole the, the building department, the city, they are wanting growth, they're wanting more, you know, density. They're open to that. So, you know, I don't, I don't have intimate comparison, but I know speaking to others, Barry is very progressive and like again, I can just speak to Barry more than let's say for example Hamilton, you know, and the process is actually more.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Really want to just stay in the past. They don't want to.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: I've, I've heard a lot of rough things about Hamilton. Like it's a little tougher.
You know. Again I'm not. I always speak from experience. Like I have to go through the process to really kind of speak about it. But I know even just going through what I used to do my conversions, you know, just trying to get a duplex into a single family over to.
I mean I would take like six months sometimes because they would take so long or you know, a little setback here. Next thing you know it's taking another three.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: I always love it when we have what like time frames, like a three week time frame to get back to you.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah, but never.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it never happens. But anyway, Quinton, I have a quick question for you. Do you know of any like, are there any municipalities that are really just stuck like in the past, they're not making these, these type of like encouragement on, on. On building?
[00:22:00] Speaker C: Well, I mean you see like Barry is like you know, allowing four units by right and there with the, the changes in the act that's supposed to be across single family home lots. But if you look at the different municipalities, they've all interpreted it differently. Which is the problem with you know, we have federal guidelines, we have provincial guidelines and we have the municipalities that actually do it and the municipalities can act like a real roadblock. And what I'm finding is that like even within the Durham region you'll have, you know, the, the region of Durham, but you'll have Whitby, you know, really only allowing three units. And then you might have like Oshawa that will allow four units and then you know, they'll have different requirements like within the envelope of the house or you know, the existing. You can do three but you know, maybe you might be able to get a fourth with a garden suite. But like it's all, it's all over the place. Like honestly if you want to make a change and this is the way I see it and you know, everybody can go screw themselves. I don't care what you think.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Let's hear it.
[00:23:23] Speaker C: But we get rid of the municipal control over the.
Over what can and can't be built because all you have is you have NIMBYs and people who will, you know, bananas who don't want anything built anywhere interfere with the process. Process. If it's supposed to be a, like a single family, four per. Per lot across the province, make it per lot and right you know, not allow the municipalities to push back. Now I granted there's going to be a lot of pushback on something like that because you're taking away municipal control.
But I think that a lot of municipalities are, are part of the problem also. I mean, this is, this is great, like fodder for the Mystic Middle conference itself because, you know, we have a, we have a lot of different groups that are at play here and I find that municipalities are one of the big challenges. I have a couple of developments like that we're working on. We've got, we've got a 20 unit building that we have another 20 units that we can put on on it that we're working on in another 40 units that we could build on the same lot.
I don't know how the heck you can have nine projects going on. It would drive me insane. One project is more than enough. And I've got, it takes. Yeah, I've got like, you know, we've got a 12 unit building where we're adding two more units. Just going to the, you know, committee of adjustments and, and, and then talking to the municipality and you know, at first they, they say, oh yeah, we'll allow you to do four units. And then they'll say, oh no, no, no, we said that at that time, but now that you actually gave us the money to go ahead, we only want you to do two units. Well, what the hell was the conversation for before then?
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Right, right.
What was that all about?
[00:25:21] Speaker C: This is how municipalities act. And you know what, you can have different conversations with different people and have different results. And that's, that's a challenge.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: So the one thing that we're actually excited about and is at our conference, we're actually bringing, we have a Ontario mayors panel. So we actually have the mayors from Burlington, Brampton, Barry, Newmarket and Toronto as well.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: So. And we've. Yeah, so we're super excited about that.
Oh, did I say Brampton? Yeah, Brampton, Newmarket, Barry, Burlington. And I feel like I'm missing one Toronto.
And so we're literally. It's a Q and A session. It's a panel. We're going to have some pre, you know, vetted questions. We also have an online community. I should probably plug this just because it is very good. We have a WhatsApp community on online there and it's missing middle developers, developers, consultants all the way across Canada that are in our group. So there's a lot of communication, like real time information, Q and A that's going on in there. And so we're getting some, some, some feedback from them, like real time. What's happening. It's not just our projects. Like we're hearing about it across the country, specifically Ontario. And so there's going to be some tough conversations and questions and Darren, I know will do a good job at that, but they are push some, not all. Obviously they have the right message. I think they are trying to change, but there's just so much red tape. There's so much, you know, old bylaws that are tough to get reversed. There's old zoning and the pushback of certain, you know, area, you know, cities and communities. It's tough. But one of the biggest things is just getting everyone on the same page. So we also have someone from, potentially from the federal government coming as well from the housing Committee and then we also have people from like Build, you know, B B the association. So anyway, we're, we're getting institutional people coming and also having the right conversation of how we can kind of create some more units and, and, and buildings. And part of that is literally looking some mayors in the eye and getting them all on one stage and having a conversation saying what's working, what's not working, what can we do? So hopefully that helps in, in wherever you're investing there. Quentin.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: I'm in on. I'm across Ontario, we've got our units are build, our buildings are our properties across Ontario.
But I think that.
Do you have. Who's some of your speakers, if you don't mind? Like, do you have Moffat?
[00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So basically we have. I have the list here. So we actually have the.
Sorry, the chief Economist of CMHC coming.
So we have.
Let me just get a list here.
Is this not updated? Here we go. So, so we got Mayor Chow, we got Matthew Liberge coming. So he's obviously the chief economist and senior VP of, of cmc. So he's going to be our, our keynote there. We also have Peter Norman from the Atlas Group. He's VP and economic strategist. So he's going to be speaking as well.
We have the VP of Real Estate finance at cmls, Robert Lowe coming, Justin Sherwin for Bild.
We got Daniel Fosh coming. You guys know him from, you know, online.
And yeah, we also have an MP from Toronto, Brad Bradford. We also have Chris spoke. He puts on the Missing Middle Summit, which is a great event there also as well in Toronto. Definitely check that out. So, and then we got our mayor's panel. So we also, we have some people from the private sector and public sector as well, some innovation innovators and of the, of the public and private space technology, AI, that sort of thing, the innovation of, of construction. So it's a wide range of people and, and conversation.
[00:29:17] Speaker C: So you're gonna have some really good conversations. I think that, you know, there's a lot of challenges to work through. Like you've got the, the costs associated with building the.
One of, one of the things that I, I'm finding that, that I, I can't, I can't make sense of right now. And maybe you can help, Dave.
When I see like some of these projects, the build projects that, that I'm seeing in some of these municipalities, you, you've got like triplexes or six plexes. Let's, let's do a six plex example which is sure a finished project.
And you go to MLI select and you're, you've underwrote this, this 6 plex for $3 million. Because the rents that you've underwrote and the, because it's based on NOI, you have a finished new build at $3 million. The issue I have is that I could in the same city buy a, like an older building at 1.4 million.
And, and I, and I look at it and I go, this doesn't make sense.
It makes sense because it's an NOI approach and it makes sense because it's a new building. But the only reason why it's being built is because of the MLI financing.
Without it wouldn't make sense, it doesn't work. Doesn't work.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: And, and that's just the reality of what's, what's happening today. I mean the only things that are making sense are these purpose built rentals, you know, And I mean that's the difference between if you pay one and a half for a used building, you know, who knows the age of the building, you know, and the value add that's necessary to bring that property up to the, to the same noi. But at the same time you're also have a brand new product, it is evaluated differently. And also the NOI might be, you know, similar. However, you have that 50 year amortization, 95 up to 95 loan to cost. So the structure of the financing debt is different.
So it can make sense. But you're right, it's, it is interesting how that the dynamic of those costs can be significant. Significantly different.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: What would be the highest amortization you could get on something older like you were talking about, Quentin, you can get.
[00:31:40] Speaker C: Like 40 year amps like that's, that's what we, we're doing now. We, we. It used to be typical that we could get 30 or 35 with CMHC. Now we're getting 40 when we're like I've, I've got four CMHC mortgages. Well actually we might go to CMHC on, on two of them or three of them.
One I have, I, I'm doing MLI with tier three on the energy efficiency in order to, to get a higher debt coverage ratio but not a higher loan to value or amortization. Right. So I can get a higher loan to value. So we, we've got we 40 year a.m.
but that's, that's more typical. But on a new build, 50 years is incredible, right?
[00:32:27] Speaker B: It is fantastic.
[00:32:28] Speaker A: I mean it's, it almost reminds me, I know it's not the same, but it almost reminds me of the American interest only loans because like you're barely paying off the, you know, the principal when you're, when you're getting to that level of amortization. Right? Yeah. So I mean at the end of the day, yeah, 50 year. Can you pay off your debt? Yes, but it's almost, you know, the methodology or the, the theory behind it in my perspective anyways, rents do increase over time and then that noi does increase. You know, do you pay off a lot of your mortgage? I don't know, like what's your mindset? Are you paying off your mortgage or are you just looking to hold this and refinance down the road and you know that kind of, that kind of strategy. So when you do your buildings, do you like, what's your, what's your thought or what's your, your business plan on that? Is it like every five years? Would you, do you refinance? Are you looking to exit or what kind of stuff do you do?
[00:33:22] Speaker C: So we, we have 25 buildings across Ontario and our typical plan is to reposition, buying existing buildings, increase the net operating income and then refinance.
So typically at the end of five years we want to try to pull out all of our initial capital that we put into it. And that's been pret, like we've had a tough time in the last two years so we've had to put off. Because interest rates went up so high we had to put off a bunch of those refinances to this year.
And so instead of doing it in year three, we've had to push it to year five.
But now I have like one very common.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's very Common. Yeah, it is what it is.
[00:34:04] Speaker C: But, but we've underwrote it to be able to do that so that we're not stuck in a position. And so that's been, you know, quite good. But we, we're buying existing product under construction cost, basically. Like, yeah, that's, you can't build these buildings that we buy for anymore for what we're buying it for. But the problem is, is, and I don't think that the wider audience of people understand this part, it's because of rent control that this, this problem exists. And because if we didn't have rent control, rents would be different, nois would be different, cap rates would be different. All of this would change and we would probably have a lot more things being built because it would make more sense. But because of that, we, we don't. And so that's, that's a lot of the. Like where I see is that. And it's not like it is what it is. I'm just using the system for, for what it is. And I, I don't like to, to, to play outside the system and get into gray area stuff and I don't want to get into trouble. But like what I'm doing is I'm looking at what the problem is and the obstacle is the opportunity here. You know, like, it's hard to build product that makes sense and you know, you're, you're working hard to solve that problem for sure. But for other people, like developers to be able to develop a larger building, it doesn't make sense.
I, I don't see how it makes sense as a rental product unless you have MLI financing. Like there's like. Yeah, and there's no. Like in the US we have lots of competition. Like I have, I have a portfolio, a small portfolio in the US And I understand they have so many different types of financing. They have nothing like MLI select. There's, there's nothing like that. They have interest only. But they don't have 50 year AMS. They don't have no, you know, DCR 1.1. Like they don't have this sort of stuff. Right?
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah. When I talk to them down there like somebody's, and they're like you, you get what up there? Like it's, it's, it's kind of crazy. Like you better build as many as you can because who knows how long that's gonna last.
[00:36:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm with you. Like. Yeah, because right now it's, you're supplementing the, like, I Don't think everybody understands CMHC is basically building, allowing the building of rental units right now. And all those condos that are. Don't make any sense anymore that were in the pipeline, all that land, they've all converted to rentals. And once that's gone, I don't think, I don't know, unless the market has changed, I don't know where we're going to have more building happen. Because a lot of those people, like I have a friend of mine on, like who on Kingston who had a condo project, I Forget what, like 300 units or something and he moved them to rentals. Why?
[00:37:07] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: Because he couldn't sell it, right?
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah, because the Yrocks did that with a bunch of their buildings, right?
[00:37:16] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: And who else? Mark. Mark Loeffler do that?
[00:37:19] Speaker C: Mark? No, Mark's out in Alberta. He's sold.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: I heard of a couple other people doing the same thing too.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Again, it comes down, I mean, that business model too, depending on what stage they take over, I mean, they have to sell X amount or certain percent pre sales in order to make that model work. And nothing's selling, you know, so. And then if, you know, maybe it did work then, but now it's not selling the rest they have to convert, you know, otherwise it doesn't work.
[00:37:47] Speaker C: Yeah, and we have a lot of developers out of business. We have a lot of construction jobs gone. Like what, 25 in Ontario, I just heard.
[00:37:56] Speaker A: So CBC just came out with an article a few days ago and they were saying that I guess the calculation that they're saying that the Ontario government, apparently the way that they calculated it was a little bit inflated than what the actual numbers are. And they're claiming that construction now in Canada's Construction is down 40%.
So the, the actual construction industry is down 40.
So I mean, I know even personally for our construction managers that we have on board, like they, they've done everything from, you know, mid high to, to low and they're. The, the competitiveness that we're actually getting on quotes now is actually really, really strong because a lot of them don't have work.
You know, the. So we like, we feel it with boots on the ground, but to see it on paper, it's, it's pretty wild.
That's crazy.
[00:38:50] Speaker B: So the answer to your question though, Quentin, if I, if I can interpret it properly, is for, for projects like this, the answer to Dave's question is refi till you die.
Right?
[00:39:02] Speaker C: Well, you mean my projects are, are Dave's projects. The Dave's projects I'm like, dude, man, build as many as you can, as long as you get this financing and get it and keep it for as long as you can't.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: But he's saying that like when it comes time to refi, do you do. Are you paying down the mortgage?
[00:39:23] Speaker C: Well, actually that's a good question for, for Dave, because what happens at the end of you Europe?
Well, mine's easy. I've been doing the same thing for.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: 20 years and it makes sense every chance you get.
[00:39:37] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it becomes a tax problem for me because if my mortgage is higher than what my purchase price is, I have a capital gains problem that's coming down the pipe, that has to be dealt with. But the question I have is if you have a 50 year amortization and you have a five year term and MLI select changes in five years from now because it's a different government, it's a different mentality about cmhc, what happens to the like and how do you exit that?
[00:40:14] Speaker A: Like, so I don't, I don't want to speak out of turn because I really don't. I know my partners would know that answer, but I don't, I don't know that answer.
But I'm not sure if we're grandfathered in with that, with that or not. But I know it isn't insured, you know, policy.
But I mean, there are many ways that, you know, people can come in and, and exit on those as well. But I, I don't know, I don't know the answer. If after five years, if they cancel it, I, I can't see them doing.
[00:40:43] Speaker B: That because, like, it just carries on, doesn't it?
[00:40:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and if the product is working, it's cash flowing. Why would they pull the plug on that? Because you know, how, you know, the percentage of units and homes that are being built right now in the last couple years has mainly been on the backbone of MLI select, or at least cmhc. So if they ever did that, that would, I mean, I would assume that would be catastrophic to the country.
[00:41:04] Speaker C: It would be. And I think this is the other way I see this because I, like, this is my, I'm a pro, like I, I look for problems and then try to solve it. Right. So what if rents go down by 15, 20 and you've built the building in the building that you've built, the rents are 20 less in five years from now?
[00:41:25] Speaker A: Well, they've already gone down 25, so. And luckily we're doing our underwriting in today's in today's underwriting with anticipation in the next 12 months.
So with the data that we have out now, they are anticipating a flat line, but it is the, the amount of supply that's coming out is this year and next year and then they're actually seeing a significant decrease in supply. So we are anticipating in our underwriting and you know people that we are a lot smarter than me state that we as far as our game planning, we're good. But yes, you're right, there are a lot of people that underwrote and the next thing you know, by the time the projects come to fruition, are ready to stabilize the, you know, the rents and the NOI is down say 15, 20% and then they have to make up that difference. Right Alberta?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They've gone through lots of their cycles there. But has Alberta dropped as well?
[00:42:20] Speaker C: Yeah, the, so what we were finding is that there were realtors. This is. Okay, like I'm not a realtor so I like, I, I, I, I probably insult more people than I should but like there are people who, I do.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: It on a daily. Don't worry. Okay.
[00:42:34] Speaker C: So sorry Rob. So like what ends up happening is like they, they're selling these, these projects at 5% down to be able to close on this construction project, you know, a new build. 6. 6. And then when they take, they, they, when they finally get to the point where you get the, the financing and stuff together, the rents that underwrote the project don't match the current rents in the situation that you're in. And then all of a sudden you have to bring two or $300,000 down versus $50,000 down to be able to, to close on this project. And they were finding that people couldn't close on these six unit new build projects because of the underwriting didn't match the current rents. My question is what happens if that changes on renewal in the, on the 50 year AMS through these construction projects and five years is a, and, and the like it all depends on population growth. It all depends on like there's a lot of factors so it's impossible to, to predict exactly. But like if we get into that position on renewal, what happens to all these MLI select mortgages?
[00:43:46] Speaker A: I mean, I think it also depends. Well there's a couple things. I think the population is going to continue. We still can't keep up with demand. So demand and supply and demand is still as per the analyst is still a huge issue now depending on what market you're in. Obviously that can be independent. Right. Like it's not one brush paints all. But so I think it's, it's that and it also depends on what your structure is. Like if I'm a mom and pop and I come on five year renewal, I don't know what your, you know, how much capital you have behind you. I don't know your intelligence level. Like, I don't know what you can do. But there's always ways that you can kind of fill that void in that gap. Like, I know in our, our, our projects we have significant equity still, even once we, you know, as per the evaluation, as you said, even though they're significant higher, we technically have equity in there. So we could like sell off the equity in order to kind of backfill any, any, anything that we need that, you know, makes up that difference, I guess.
[00:44:43] Speaker C: Right. To be able to bring capital in.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: You'D have to because essentially that would be the only way that you could backfill it other than, you know, going bust.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Bust.
[00:44:53] Speaker C: And CMHC is not going to go bust. They're going to make sure to take you with them, right?
[00:44:58] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. I just mean it doesn't make sense.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: No, no, no. I, But I also like what people don't understand too, that like with multifamily mortgages as opposed to development, personal guarantees are a common practice, particularly in multifamily. Like if you, if you're going to go down, they're going to take everything from you. Oh yes, like have like no personal guarantees in, in, in condo development projects, you know, depending on the size and scope and your experience, of course. But even with all of those things in rental projects, it's not the same off. You're, you're providing personal guarantees. Now you, maybe if you're going below, let's say like 50% or 60% loan to value.
CMAC may not require you to have a personal guarantee, but the lender is still going to make some sort of personal guarantee.
[00:45:57] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, there, there's no, yeah, there's, there's no 100% corporate veil on this, on this situation. So they can pierce that, no problem.
[00:46:08] Speaker C: Oh yeah, absolutely.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: I would say, I would say if this is your first time listening to this show, your goal should be to understand everything these guys are saying.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: We're going, Sorry, we're going on a.
[00:46:20] Speaker C: Bit of a. Oh, I apologize.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: But, but I enjoy this stuff because, you know, this is, I'm literally living and breathing lately. But, but yeah, sorry, Rob.
[00:46:31] Speaker C: No, it's good. You Know what? Like, I think like, if you, if you just try to find, sometimes if you could just try to find different ways where you might find a problem in the future, all you're doing is you're just being proactive rather than reactive. And I think that as a real estate investor, one of your goals is to be able to do that because you will end up in situations where interest rates go up, you know, 300% and now what do you do? Right, right. Or you get to the point of refinance and your value of your loan is higher than the current value that of, of, you know, what you think you should be able to get on your property, and what do you do? Like, how does that situation get resolved? It's about kind of figuring out what those are. And that's part of the, like, I don't know, it's part of the fun. It doesn't sound like it, but I.
[00:47:23] Speaker A: Remember, like, even just personally, you know, you take learning curves and, you know, sometimes you, you feel the pain to learn those learning curves. Like even in Hamilton, when I was doing a lot of my, you know, multi family conversions at the time, I decided to do a couple single family flips, you know, when everything was kind of rocking and doing great and, and one of my mentors always told me to always have multiple legs of strategies and when sometimes you get a little bit comfortable and you see an opportunity. And even though I bought right, it was just one of those things. The market changed so quickly. You know, the, the mindset of the, of the buyers, interest rates went up, prices started to fall, no one was buying. Everyone was scared and kind of frozen. And, you know, I took a bit of a hit on those, on those, which was fine. But with all my multi families, either I could have flipped them, I could have refinanced and still cash flowed well. And it was just one of those things where multiple exit strategies are always, you know, it was a huge learning curve.
Learning, like you're just saying Quinton, like figuring out how to pivot and, and understanding different ways to invest, like creatively, the conversations, leveraging other people, like, you know, whatever you got to do.
And it, it's just having the ability to understand that you can pivot and what to, what to go through and what direction you can move to. And I feel like that over the last couple years, I think anyone who's been in the space has learned or a few years has learned what that's like more, more than ever in my, you know, 15 years of, of investing.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: Yeah, and you always, you know, you. There are a lot of things that you learn along the way, you know, like capital raising, you know, government incentives and zoning, you know, layouts and, you know, collaborating with municipalities and, you know, different lenders and that sort of thing. Like, you know, maybe you can share some of your experiences on, you know, maybe your capital raising journey or, you know, government incentives and zoning changes.
[00:49:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I can talk to the capital raising side of things.
You know, when I was doing my projects, it was only a handful of projects and it would all be very close family and friends and that kind of thing because, like, that's what it only needed to make the project work. And then now obviously we're at a larger scale.
You know, there's a lot of stories in the news, news and people we all indirectly know, you know, and I don't think, you know, things, things happen, things pivot and you know, I don't want to get into that, but just you learn from other people, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at. So one of the things, you know, when I had to go out and I wouldn't say actively looking but more progressively looking is, you know, there's security rules, there's security laws, there's, you know, certain things that I need to follow. If I have a conversation or even talk about raising capital on this show, I got to make sure that I have my processes down in case I ever get audited or I ever get looked at. You know, who are, who's investing with me? You know, are they accredited investor, are they not? What type of questions have I asked them? So like, that whole system, it was a learning curve for me. And part of that was going to a securities lawyer and saying like, what do I need?
Or what kind of questions should I be asking? So I protect myself and obviously protect the investor and that sort of thing. So, so that was, that was a learning curve for me over the last, I'd say 12 months maybe.
[00:50:36] Speaker C: Like just explain what accredited investor is in case there's anybody that doesn't, doesn't know.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Yeah, so the criteria, criteria of a credit is I don't have in front of me. Basically you have to have over a million dollars of net worth, not, not including your primary residence, 200000 in in income annually or 300 with your spouse.
There's also like three separate sections too, and that's net worth, liquid, you know, that sort of thing.
There's also different sections too. Like, for example, I wasn't aware that one of the exemptions for the Ontario securities is you can actually invest with, with, with a corporation over 150k. So you know, that was new to me.
You know, and then obviously close friends, relative involved with the executive level. Like there's certain criterias that you have to hit for exemptions that you can allow people to either a figure out if they're accredited or if they're not accredited, then they can hit one of those exemptions. Yeah, there's literally about, I have about three appendix appendixes of about 25 questions or you know, check boxes on each that I can't remember, but those are the main ones.
[00:51:45] Speaker C: Okay. Maybe you can share a little bit too about the government incentives and that's, that's reshaping the, the project feasibility.
[00:51:55] Speaker A: Well, you, the government incentives in which, which.
[00:51:58] Speaker C: Yeah. So like are you, are you able to. I guess there's MLI select, but there must be municipal incentives.
[00:52:06] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So for example, some, some municipalities I know just because it's close to home. I'll give an example of Burlington. Burlington right now has an ADU or additional dwelling unit incentive. Right now it's about, I think it's 90k. There's between 70, 90k and there's some criteria for it, but it's not a forgivable loan that, that basically can be tacked on to your, your building construction. I've seen some other cities do that too. But, but mainly we're using MLI select. So that's kind of the, the financing arm that we're using right now.
[00:52:38] Speaker B: But well, the other thing too, like just out of curiosity, like things that are sort of helping you get, get the density that you're looking for. Like, I think, did you mention that on the lots that you bought on the street, you're severing them to three, is that correct?
Some of them, yeah. And so things like rules must have changed in at some point in order to do that.
[00:53:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:53:01] Speaker B: Because they would have had.
I mean, the only thing I've ever heard of is single or double lot. Right. So now the fact you're able to turn them into three, that's a game changer.
[00:53:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And also there's a lot of, you know, provincial government changed some bills that basically allowed to 10 units and under to bypass site plan approval process. So you can bypass the site plan approval process, but a lot of the, the, the requirements within that are now kind of pushed down into the municipal level of the building permit. So, so that was a big one too. So that's like speed and time that municipalities and provincial have. Have kind of taken on the burden of trying to speed up a lot of these construction projects. So that's one specifically that I, you know, that's really helped us in our.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that's huge. Right?
[00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: I wanted to ask you. I don't know if either of you have heard of this coalition against new home taxes. You heard of that?
I just found them the other day.
Is it.
[00:54:10] Speaker A: Sorry, what's that? The acronym on that?
[00:54:12] Speaker B: Can't.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: Oh no, I haven't.
[00:54:14] Speaker B: Against new home taxes. And they're. And they're working on.
They're working with a whole bunch of builders.
I don't know if it's something that might be interesting for your.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: Is that a provincial. Is that a provincial announcement or.
[00:54:28] Speaker B: It's Canadian.
[00:54:29] Speaker A: Oh, federal.
[00:54:31] Speaker B: But I mean it's a coalition. So I don't. I don't exactly know but.
But they're working on the cost of building too. Trying to keep it down. But it looks interesting. I've only just kind of like browse the website briefly there.
[00:54:44] Speaker A: There's a lot of push right now on and it's going to be a big topic actually at the conference is DC's.
So development charges.
I mean. Yeah, it's so. I mean a lot of places have cut them by 40, 50, even 70%.
You know, there's some discussion of wiping them all out. You know, and I don't know if it's a campaign slogan or if there's actually desire and a path to actually make that happen, but it's a lot easier for the federal level to push it on the provincial or the provincial to push it on the municipalities because that's a lot of their income. Right.
But anyway there's just that. That's a big one too that's under discussion right now.
[00:55:28] Speaker C: I think the history behind that is it used to be the provincial government that helped with some of the infrastructure building that is no longer done at the provincial level and now has been pushed down to the municipality. But at some point like the.
It just got way out of whack. Like the. They. They started to use the.
Aside from infrastructure building. You know really it's. It's become like an income source versus infrastructure building component and it is necessary.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: To hit the quota.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: Yes, they. Well, to give you an example, I mean Barry's been awesome but at the end of the day it's just. What's in place is they. For the 10 unit walk up we originally I think it was about 450000 just in the, in. In DCs.
[00:56:26] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:56:26] Speaker A: Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So, I mean, and then, you know, you attack on everything else that's included along the way. It's just, you know, how do you.
Things add up real quick? And that's why the cost of building is so expensive. You know, you said that you're purchasing stuff below construction costs. Well, it's just, it costs so much to build, you know, so that's even. And that's, that's the issue even before.
[00:56:50] Speaker C: You get to building. Like, I. I've got a 20, 23 unit, and I can build another 20 unit beside it, but the municipality asked me to do shadow studies, traffic studies. Like, they studied me to death. $200,000 in studies without even the knowledge whether I would be approved or not. Now why don't I just take my money and, and shove it down the toilet and flush it a hundred times? Because, like, that's basically what, what they're asking me to do.
[00:57:22] Speaker B: This is.
[00:57:23] Speaker C: This is pure municipal stupidity. And this is what, what developers. That's how I. Like, you must have like a heart of gold or you must be like the most patient man in the world. World, because I have no idea how you would do this, like, without going crazy.
[00:57:39] Speaker A: So we, I mean, I mean, I. Again, I can only talk from my own experience, but we found something that works and we're just rinsing and repeating it right now in a very, very, very small area.
So I can only imagine if I was wanting to do this in Barry and then Hamilton and then, you know, Fergus and then Collingwood, you know what I mean? And then going through this whole learning curve, you know, over and over again. Right. So I don't know.
[00:58:05] Speaker B: I mean, all of your. Everything you need to deal with, you go to one place.
[00:58:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:58:10] Speaker B: Right. And maybe it's different projects, but you go to the same place.
[00:58:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: I can't imagine having to go and, you know, going to Hamilton, going, yeah.
[00:58:20] Speaker A: And we, and we've done certain studies, like the.
It's like a flow study, basically, of like, the amount of water that can go down the street, you know, how many sewers can connect and all that to make sure that we're not hitting a capacity and seeing, you know, finding something down the road. But, you know, you could be that one person that comes in, in a new area that you don't know that kind of data and information for, and then that hits you. So not only do you have all the DCs that we're talking about, but then you have, you know, sewer connection that you weren't expecting and then you got to pay for that. And it's just, it just goes on and on and on. But there has to be a more efficient way to come collectively to actually figure these things out. And again, I don't keep going back to the conference, but like we're literally getting everyone in the same room to try and have these type of conversations to hopefully move the needle forward.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I like it, I like it. Tell us about the conference one more time.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Yeah, September 12th. It's in Toronto at the Fairmont Royal York.
It's beautiful spot.
It's about 250 people. Like I said, we got people from federal, provincial, municipality level, private sector, public sector.
We have institutional lenders coming as well. That's a big thing that I didn't really mention. We're trying to bring in the institutional lenders and office family offices into this space to create more liquidity and awareness not only just for business wise, but also for the ability to create more housing. There's, there's a huge untapped, you know, opportunity in this space. Like for example, we can pretty much, you know, we can pretty much get about 100 units in about 24 months. If we started in the same, at the same time. That would take approximately five to seven years if you want to do a high rise, you know, in, in those same amount of units right from ground level. So the ability to get shovels in the ground and some of these in the, in this missing middle space is the opportunity is there.
[01:00:14] Speaker B: Oh, beautiful. Well, it sounds like it's going to be a great event. So if you're thinking. Yeah, reach out to. What was it?
[01:00:20] Speaker C: The.
[01:00:21] Speaker A: Mm.
Just go to. Correct. Yeah, the mmc ca. I know all our early Birds tickets are all sold out, but still got a handful of VIP. And actually the other thing too of the VIPs is a cool opportunity where we're actually having all the speakers, the mayors and, and the VIPs all in one room to have, have a lunch and open dialogue conversation. And so I don't know if you're into it. If this is your space, you'd want to be in that room for sure.
[01:00:48] Speaker C: So, you know, Dave, I would go but I think I would make so many enemies.
[01:00:52] Speaker A: No, we want. No, no, no, no.
[01:00:55] Speaker B: We want everyone's there to have the same conversation.
[01:00:58] Speaker C: You.
Oh, I get so mad at something.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: Well, as long as you don't bring signs quitting her, you know, or something, I think you're invited. Honestly, we Want that open dialogue and.
[01:01:09] Speaker B: Slip it to all these people.
[01:01:13] Speaker A: We. I think. I think the goal is to have those tough conversations, like, legit and if, you know, respectively have these tough conversations. Right. And just, Just, you know, hear what, what we can do about it. It's. Yeah, we're all in the same boat and we all need more affordability, so the only way to do that is to build more houses, so. And units.
[01:01:33] Speaker B: Well, thank you, Dave. I appreciate you coming on today. This has been, like, a lot of fun. It's been just an open conversation where we, you know, I think more or less really went off kind of what we were. What we were gonna do. But, yeah, I think it was good.
[01:01:48] Speaker A: I appreciate you guys having me on too, by the way.
[01:01:50] Speaker C: It was good connecting with you, Dave. I. I've heard about you before, the 911 network and, and that sort of thing, so it's kind of cool to. To connect with you. So that, that was really good.
So I appreciate that. And we'll have to have you on again. This is good conversation.
[01:02:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:07] Speaker A: Well, I, I want you guys to come, so if you guys are willing to come, please, please do. I'll. We'll talk. Laughter and I can hook you up.
[01:02:16] Speaker B: Quentin, how can people get in touch with you?
[01:02:18] Speaker C: You can go to quintessousa.com I'm happy to talk for 15 minutes on real estate.
If you're interested in learning about.
You know what? I do come out to Durham rei. We do monthly events. You know, we have a great group of people there, so, you know, that's a good way of getting a hold of me as well. And Rob, how do people get ahold of you?
[01:02:41] Speaker B: I think the best way is actually just go over to Point Break Homes, Costa Rica on Facebook, book and get in touch with me through there.
So thanks, everybody for listening. Appreciate you all doing it again month after month, and we will see you next time.
[01:02:56] Speaker C: Awesome, Thanks.
