Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: If you're looking for the skills and tools to succeed in real estate investing, you've come to the right place.
This show is about breaking through barriers, breaking through limiting beliefs, and breaking through to the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing. You're listening to the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing Podcast. And now, here are your hosts, Rob Brake and Quinton d'.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Souza.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for joining us again. As usual, Quinton d' Souza is here with me. How are you, Quentin?
[00:00:36] Speaker D: I'm excellent. How about yourself?
[00:00:38] Speaker C: I'm doing well. We're getting back into dry season here, so summer is on the horizon for us. How's the weather there?
[00:00:45] Speaker D: It's starting to get cold. We've got snow, I think, coming up on the weekend, so I've got another week here and then I'm gonna head off to Spain for three weeks. So that will be weather like there.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: Is it, is it always, it's always hot, right?
[00:01:03] Speaker D: No, it's between like 15 and 20. So it's not too hot, not too cold. So I, I, I'm, it's better than snow, that's all I have to say.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: But doesn't mean coming back. You'd probably be back before the snow.
[00:01:16] Speaker D: Yeah, but I, I do like snow at Christmas time, so, like, I like it with all the lights and stuff like that. And then, and then by the time January comes, I'll get a little tired of it, but.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Yeah, me too. That's a sacrifice I had to make though, you know.
[00:01:31] Speaker D: How's, how's the weather in Costa Rica?
[00:01:35] Speaker C: It's beautiful. Yeah. Like, actually it's, it's supposed to be raining here in the afternoons because the weather's pretty steady. Right. So you get up in the morning. It'd be nice during rainy season. Actually just started raining. That's funny.
But most the last few days it hasn't been raining, but it should be raining right now, so we've had a nice little break from that.
[00:01:57] Speaker D: Awesome. What are you working on there? Any projects or anything on the go?
[00:02:03] Speaker C: Yeah, a couple of things that haven't worked out, Quentin, so I'm not going to talk about them.
I was working, I think I mentioned to you that I was working on something and it's just not going to work out. So, you know, back to the drawing board.
[00:02:17] Speaker D: Just got to keep at it.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:19] Speaker D: That's the, that's the key.
I've, I just started another refinance.
Hopefully we'll get that done early. January of 9 unit. We originally bought it for, like, I want to say, I can't off the top of my head, I think it's like 620 or 650, and we're looking at a mortgage now of about like, 1 point, 1.3.
So that'll be a good.
Our current mortgage, I believe, is like 700.
So it'll be a good takeout once we're, Once we're done. But that's, that's going to be, you know, in the early next year. So I still have ones that I'm trying to finish off. I'm just finding that the banks are dragging their feet when it comes to refinances, so hopefully. Anyways, I keep keep harping on this, but, you know, got to get it done.
[00:03:13] Speaker C: Are you still buying stuff or are you.
[00:03:16] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm working on 14 units right now, so it's.
But we're probably gonna close in early next year. I was hoping to get it closed in November, but it's not going to happen, obviously. So we'll, We're.
[00:03:32] Speaker C: We'll.
[00:03:32] Speaker D: I'm just going to keep working on it, and if there's some, like, if there's a really good opportunity, I'm. I'm going to take advantage of it for sure.
But I have a lot of real estate, so, you know, adding more to it. It's more important to me the quality of the asset that I'm going to add, not the volume of it.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: Right.
[00:03:53] Speaker D: So that's, that's the key.
[00:03:55] Speaker C: So you're telling us it's a good deal?
[00:03:57] Speaker D: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If I, if I, if I, if I'm bringing it to you and you say, no, there's something wrong with you.
[00:04:05] Speaker C: Okay, I gotcha.
All right, well, everyone listening, go over to Breakthrough Raipodcast Cat. You can get in touch with all of our past guests. We've got, like, if you go into the show notes, all of the, all of the links that they've given us are in there to contact whoever you want from past shows that we've done.
So go over there. Breakthrough REIP podcast, ca. It's a good resource if you're loving the show and want to talk to some of the people that we've talked to and then go over to itunes and leave us a rating and review. Please do that. I know it probably just sounds like something that you hear me say every time, but if you haven't done it, just take a couple seconds and go over and leave us a review. We really appreciate it. If, if you think Quinton's falling off because he's just getting too used to being here now and the spark and excitement of when he was first on the show have gone away. You know, let us, let us know.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Ouch.
[00:05:01] Speaker C: And we'll, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll nip it in the butt, you know, make sure that we, we pull it out of them. You know what I mean? Whatever, whatever we need to do. It probably wouldn't be anything about me, but if it is, then we'll, we'll hear that too.
But yeah, so just go, leave us a rating and review. It just helps us a lot, you know, I can't remember how many we've got, but a lot of you have done it. So I appreciate everyone that has went over and left us a review and that's it. Quentin, let's talk to our guest.
[00:05:31] Speaker D: Right, so our, our guest. I, I am gonna, I'm gonna say I'm gonna mispronounce your name so I'm gonna get you to, to help me, but it's Dr. M.
Bill. I just call you Bill so it makes it a lot easier.
Dr. Bill Gingham.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Yep. Erdom, yeah.
[00:05:53] Speaker D: Is a machine learning expert, technical leader and educator based in Toronto. He holds a PhD, a Master of Science, a Bachelor of Science, Systems Engineering. He spent the last decade building and scaling AI driven products, most notably the CTO of Smart Nova where he held an end to end development non intrusion snore prevention device used globally.
He specializes in applied machine learning, optimization and product focused engineering with hands on experience across hardware and firmware.
He's an adjunct professor at Toronto Metropolitan University teaching data analytics, Python, data based systems and advanced statistical modeling.
Basically he's saying he's really smart and, and me and Rob are in trouble here.
He's passionate about building practical solutions, mentoring students and exploring new opportunities at the intersection of, of ML smart devices and real world problem solving. It's tough when like the description of the person, it's hard to, hard to make out all the words. I'm sorry, I totally.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: Okay, I'm sure you got it.
Yeah. Welcome. Thanks for joining us.
[00:07:19] Speaker D: But we are talking real estate. This, this one. So I've got a little bit of advantage there. Rob's got a little bit of advantage and we can talk the same language. So what I wanted to, to, to find out is maybe tell a little bit about your real estate story. So a background about how you got going in all of this.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah. First of all, I'd like to kick off with a thanks. And it's not a figure speech like thanks for having me. For two reasons obviously thanks for having me. But for the other reason is I was literally coming from the job site earlier today. I had to go to one of my job site in Peterborough and I was talking about this. So I have my landscaping people, we're doing an exterior sighting and I have my general contractor when I arrived there to drop off some materials, they were already waiting for me to start a fight. They were like, all of them were like 9 out of 10 full energetic and they were saying where are you? Where are you?
And then as any real estate investor should be able to do, put out a fire. So I did. All right, all right, we're going to fix this, we're going to fix that. And, and then I was able to wrap up things and time and part of that was telling people hey, I need to be back in courtesy at 1pm so I have to leave. I have to leave. So thanks for inviting me you on the job site.
[00:08:44] Speaker D: We saved you some drama. That's good. It's always nice to avoid the drama when you can on the job site.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
Well, my real estate investment story is I think might be similar to a lot of accidental investors. I don't think mine is unique but it resonates a lot about the things that we discuss in dura Maria in terms of being an action taker.
Mine became super accidental because my background as you can see is mostly heavily academic. My wife and I are both professors. We came Canada 10 years ago for our sabbatical and then here I kept doing applied work teaching at university while working at a tech startup company.
And a couple years back in middle 2023 I want to say I had extended family planning to come here. So we're the flag bearers. We had no family here, so and then we were thinking, oh, since my brothers and family are moving in, how about we buy like a three unit stuff or like a duplex has that has a potential of three units. That's how we ended up, you know, having something other than our primary resonance.
But it is full of learnings. I want to say because it was staged. I didn't know that there was a group of nice people called Durham rei. I had no idea. It's like good old school of big no no's. I did, I crossed all of them. Like I bought.
[00:10:20] Speaker D: You did all the wrong things. You did.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I bought the most expensive property on the street. It was staged. I bought thinking that I'm not going to spend A dime on it. And then the closing day, we figured out that there was a water leak in the basement, like foundation crack.
And that was not the biggest problem. So we had a cockroach infestation that had been there for like 10 years and many more. So we ended up spending, I think, a little over $200,000 on top of our drained status. Because at the time being, I spent all my savings for down payment.
And then to Sweden, the deal we had, my family decided to go back to Turkey. So they were unhappy with the state of Canada, which I can't blame them at this point. Anywho, I ended up with spending half a million dollars on a property that I didn't want to live in.
And while we're doing this, I had no experience. By the way, I used to call myself the least DIY person in Canada. I can take a light bulb. Like, I was like that, right?
And I can write a software about how to change a light bulb. But I was like that.
And the greatest way of learning stuff is, I think, doing stuff while trying to do stuff. I remember the day I was doing demo and doing demolition on a job site.
In your first time with cockroaches around the place is. No, it's not fun. And I remember my wife texting me the address, like, ability center at 7pm you're going there.
I said, all right, honey. Like, I'm already tired. Like, I don't want to go, but anyways. And I said, okay, there's an entrance fee. I said, like, you know, I earn my life by talking, right? So I've been to.
I forget the number of conferences that I've been to as a guest speaker, as a keynote speaker, and, like, you know, the science world.
But the thing is, I am tired. I've been doing demos since 8am and there's a conference at 7pm which I probably not going to learn anything. But anyways, like, you know, I've been married long enough to know the key to the happy life. You know, happy wife, happy life. All right, honey, I'm going.
I went there. I got a little bit surprised because there were a lot of happy people, which felt a little awkward. Like, people are paying this much and they're so happy. And as any skeptical person, I said, what's going on here? Right?
And again, I'm gonna cut this part a little bit short. But overall, I met like five, 10 people over there, 10 out of 10. They said, like, you know, you're not gonna find a better community than this. And then so Much like great words.
Now that I do personally repeat as well in terms of Quentin being an educator, being not being a gatekeeper, sharing things. So those are the. May sound like small things, but they're.
[00:13:18] Speaker D: Important like, because I appreciate it. Thank. Thank you so much. But this is about you, so let, let's make sure that.
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Well, that, that, that definitely was about him. And I think that, you know, I, I would be interested to know if people want to write in or like, you know, if you're leaving a review, let us know if you joined some kind of a group and that sort of helped you excel forward.
What like, so when you, when you're, you're of course speaking about Durham rei, we never actually said that, but you know, it's a very similar story for me other than I don't think I was in too deep. You know, I more came because I had the bug. I think I had one rental property when I discovered Durham rei, and that was pretty early on.
[00:14:10] Speaker D: Yeah, you were wholesaling too?
[00:14:11] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I was, I was trying to.
[00:14:14] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:14:15] Speaker C: Yeah, but I think I was, I think I was.
I think I was actually doing it. Like, I think I had the signs out and everything, you know, but ended up see right there, like, I mean, I did a few deal, like I did a few wholesale deals and going to Durham rei, everyone was like, rob, what do you got? You know, I was, I was literally mobbed pretty much every time, every month. So that was, that was kind of cool and it actually helped, you know, me be able to sell these properties because what would you do? Where would you go to sell them?
There is other places, but it was very cool.
[00:14:54] Speaker D: Yeah, that's good. Like you, you want to be able to, to, to share what, what you're doing with people. And you know, I think when you're with people who are doing what you're doing, it makes it easy to share.
Also when you're looking for solutions like it, you know, you either you will find the solution in the group or you'll get connected to, you know, people that help you. So, like, that's, that's what I, I found useful when you're attending different types of groups. Like, I run Durham rei, but I also participate in, for example, the Toronto Business Society. And I learn a lot from that group and their businesses are. A lot of them are much bigger than mine, so I learn from them. Right. So it's just like different groups where you learn. So I appreciate that. But like, so you started off with the triplex and then you moved On. And you. You bought another property after that.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's the part that I was going to use the drum roi as a segue because the key word is, I guess, resonate. Because at that point we were financially drained, we were emotionally drained, physically drained.
Any sane person would probably take a couple years to recover. Right.
But we wouldn't, because the keyword is, as I said, resonate. We're living in an era. I guess it wouldn't be too wrong to say we're surrounded with, you know, Instagram or TikTok gurus that are selling you the key to success, the key to life. Like, they are selling this keys. Anywho. So I met that community that helped me a lot in terms of, oh, they're actual people and there are people that are doing this. Ergo, I can. So after that drainage period, like we started in July, wrapped up by the end of November and then December, I think I remember we've been to Mexico, like Playa de Carmen. And on the way back, January, I was walking the kids off to school, and I saw my neighbor's park up for sale. And I remember the old lady who used to live there, because it was not maintained. The grasses were not cut like a typical burr story. I called my agent. I said, all right, let's see.
And he said, they're withholding offers. And it was priced like a fishing price, like it was almost 40% off the fair market value.
And then, as expected, the property was not in great condition.
I can say the only silver lining was there were no rat droppings because the lady used to live with 20 cats. It was just, you know, cat piss and you can't breathe in. And it's like, I want this. Like, yeah.
Anyway, we got that one. We closed that in March. And this time we were a little bit more experienced because we got our, you know, the learnings from the previous project.
And then we were able to wrap that up by July and it was a successful refinance. We were able to get all the investment we put over there. And by the way, for those anyone watching, anyone listening, if you're thinking how where do you find the money? Like, it requires down payment. And by the way, there's no fishy fish business. Like, 20% down payment, or even for my case was 25. I was going with TD, a lender. I do my personal business with TD. So how did it happen? So the theme of the second project was I was listening to a lot of people, hey, I'm lending this much money. I'M using private lender this and that. And I said, I have my own savings, but I don't want to touch my. You TFSA and rsp, they're like the last plan, last resort. If something goes sideways, I want to keep my savings, right? And I said, all right, I want to learn how to do creative financing. So the second one happened by.
I connected with someone who's doing private lending.
I got some money not only for down payment, also to cover some of my construction renovation costs. And overall after the rehab and refinancing, it covered the down payment, it covered the construction cost and off on top of that, we had a small amount on. It was 100 birth. So it was yay, nice again.
I'm like, it is nice once they're done.
But the friendly reminder for everyone.
There's always more than meets the eye. It is not as simple as it sounds. There's always unforeseen things, unexpected things. I always remind myself, including today, it's not so easy. Had it been so easy, then everyone would have done it. Right? So that's the thing.
And also it applies.
I'm applying a lot of things that I've learned throughout my career in software development, in machine learning and AI development.
Interestingly, there are a lot of overlaps between software development and real estate development.
And one of the favorite books of mine is this Hard things about Hard Things from Ben Horowitz. These guys are the biggest funding A16Z.
They're private funding company for startups in Silicon Valley.
But in a sense the books talks about doing hard things about hard things.
So that made our skin a little bit tougher. So we used to be. Oh, there is a drywall patch. What are we going to do too?
Oh, like we need to replace entire flooring. Yeah, like time money. It's a project management from that point.
And then the next project happened in 2025, like six months ago in.
[00:21:01] Speaker D: So this is your third. This is your third project. So you've done two triplexes at this point or one.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: The first one was triplex, the other one was duplex conversion from single home.
[00:21:12] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: And the third one was in Peterborough, again, single family home to duplex.
[00:21:19] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: And the fourth one, like I've come from the fourth one right now that's similar.
That ended up, by the way, the third one was in Peterborough because a friend of mine's son goes to Trent and we've been to Peterborough for the zoo and the kids and stuff. But I was not planning to invest in Peterborough until the Market started going down and the numbers made more sense and met a couple of people in Duramarii who does investment in Peterborough. And it's not too far from my house and thanks to Doc Ford, 407 is free. So it's like half an hour from my place.
Anywho, we said, all right, why not?
That happened in May and we were able to wrap that up by August.
But the funny thing about that one is we started on mid of May. While I was going there, I saw a distressed property that was listed 450, which is, by the way, these are nice numbers because for those who remembers what happened two, three years ago, we had those 70 year old bungalows selling over a million in Oshawa. So compared to that, I remember people were talking buy cash flow properties. Where are they? Like there's none. Right. So there are now. Anywho, when I was going there, there was a property not too far from my job site and it was a 80 by 200 lot and it was in the urban, it was not in the rural.
And the house was not visible because of the houses was like, you know, not maintained at all.
And they said maybe we went with a local offer, we were able to acquire that. So we closed that in July.
[00:23:00] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: And then.
[00:23:01] Speaker D: So this was on top of the, the duplex.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:06] Speaker D: Okay. Okay, so now you've got two in Peterborough and two in Oshawa.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yes, this one is.
Yes. One in Osha, one in Oshawa, one in Curtis.
I'm in Curtis, by the way. So my problem, okay, one in Peterborough, another one in Peterborough. This, this is the one that we're hopefully gonna wrap up in two, three weeks.
[00:23:28] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: And in next Wednesday, in five, six days, I have another one in Peterborough that I am closing. So I put the deposits two weeks ago. It's a quick closing and I got my commitment letter. Fingers crossed by November 12th when we have the meeting. Quentin, bring it. Action taker stuff.
[00:23:49] Speaker D: There you go.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Good stuff. Yeah. This is going to be the closing on next Wednesday. So. And that's going to be the same thing, like a brick bungalow built in 60s 70s and it's going to be illegal two unit. So. And then, so are you.
[00:24:05] Speaker D: What are you doing with these? So the one that you bought in, in June, you've refinanced it already or are you waiting to refinance?
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I refinance it. Since I'm also doing things with borrowed money. I'm not like, I'm not optimizing things in terms of rate, in terms of maximum value for me. So there's something in maths called local optima trap. So I'm not trying to optimize things for short gain. I am into like a longer arc, if that makes sense. So, yeah, in other words, I would like to, to be able to pay my partner sooner so that I can acquire more. Like, remember when you were saying I'm, I'm poor quality.
[00:24:53] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: Not. I'm definitely not.
[00:24:56] Speaker D: You're for volume right now. It's okay at different times, you're at different places in your investing.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: I guess we're like 20 years apart. Like, you started probably two decades sooner than me. I can say. I can humbly say that I just started two and a half years ago.
[00:25:12] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: So.
[00:25:14] Speaker D: But you're, you're doing really well. You've like, you've got more properties than most people will have in their lifetime, and I don't think you should discredit that. Like, when you go into rooms and you meet people that have lots of experience, sometimes you feel like you're, you're not, you know, you start to compare. Right. And you shouldn't really do that because you're much further apart than everybody. You learn from them for sure.
So now you're going to do your, your fourth property and you're going to, you're going to refi it and hold it, is what you're telling me, right?
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much all of them. So I'm not into flip yet for multiple reasons.
Like, I, I don't think in my humble opinion, the market is right point in terms of doing a flip. And also, as I said, I'm into more wealth generation in, in long run.
So that's why I'm like buy and hold right now. The current strategy is buy, buy and hold. But the only thing is I think I'm getting a little bit itchy in terms of the current scale. In other words, probably small multi families like 10, 12, 14 units probably is going to be the next step. But the last two projects, like the one that we closed in July that I'm currently working on, and the one that we're gonna close next week, they were like last minute and also they were too good to miss. Like, they, they are the comparable. Once you have a comparable sold across the street for 680 and then you know that you can close it for like 450 or something. And then it's like it's yelling at you like, buy me, buy me.
Yeah.
And in terms, by the way, just to respond to the comparison stuff, I had a colleague of mine at Ontario Tech Union here in Oshawa, one of the distinguished profs, I often quote from him. So comparison is the thief of joy. So I never ever compare myself apart from my yesterday.
And also here's the thing, I think I told you this before, the one that I really envy about you is your physical health. Man, that's hard. I've met a lot of wealth, that's okay. Like in tech, you can see people who are acquiring $600 million in three years.
You can be a crypto millionaire, you can be an app millionaire. Like I've been in the same room with a lot of them. But it's not so easy to change mindset, change lifestyle. So those are, in my humble opinion, way harder than, you know, what you do. So that's why respect. I see in hiking you're, you know, in physical good health. Knock on wood. Don't die in the next week.
[00:28:02] Speaker D: Just had my, I did all my pull ups and push ups today and you know, I did my, my, this is, was my one hour of arms. I call the arm blaster.
So it was good. Good day today.
[00:28:16] Speaker C: I wanna, I wanna clear a couple of things up if I can.
So all of these properties you bought and you added a suite to them.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Is that correct for separation?
[00:28:30] Speaker C: One was a duplex, you added a third and then two were single or I guess three are single families in your. You have or are going to add a second edit?
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Yeah, all the Four.
[00:28:41] Speaker D: Four.
Four of them.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Four of them, yeah.
[00:28:45] Speaker C: Oh, okay. Okay.
[00:28:47] Speaker D: So this is the fifth one.
[00:28:48] Speaker C: The one was a triplex and the three were our duplexes.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah, four.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: Four together. Correct.
[00:28:56] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. No, no.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: So there's gonna be three in Peterborough, one in Curtis. Those are the.
[00:29:03] Speaker C: I missed, I missed the third one in Peterborough.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Well, even.
[00:29:10] Speaker D: He'S got.
[00:29:11] Speaker C: One thing I've noticed here, one thing I've noticed is now obviously you're doing some of the work yourself, you said, but you're not doing all of it. And your timelines sound pretty tight.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:29:22] Speaker C: To get this stuff done. So.
And also we'll talk about the. You said, you know, that you weren't.
You, you see the optimization on the refi.
That's where you're experiencing the optimization. So like you kind of sort of discredited yourself a little bit, I think when you were talking about the buy because you're always looking at what it's going to be when you're done and then the success that you've had being able to pull that money back out on a refi is. Is pretty impressive.
So I would say that's definitely optimization. But your timelines are, you know, you're buying in March and, and having the project wrapped up in July. Like, how are you doing that? You know, that seems pretty streamlined, Tight.
[00:30:10] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: Well, I'll reveal the secret that is my wife. So it's not a single game, to be honest. Like, half of it. I usually, like I told us the first day I met Quinton, I'm just Uber driver. When I came there with a drywall, dust in my hair, paint in my pants, I said, my wife sent me here. Like, I'm just Uber driver. So there's a brain behind this shell. It's a team game. And it is usually it's always nice to have someone to, you know, rent. Like sometimes there are days that you're super upset about your contractor, your supplier, someone, someone. And again, it's a team game.
Also, the other things that I can share is we usually not usually we never ever go with the first coat. We try to first learn the landscape, whatever that is. So right now I'm working with a general contractor that I worked in the last three, four projects.
So part of the success is I haven't killed him yet. He hasn't killed me yet. But it is like we're not in Smurfs. We're not in, you know, Teletubbies. In the workplace, there's gonna be some friction, so healthy friction that's happening. But on top of that, like, you need to be aware of whatever you're doing. Right. So if you don't know, you cannot manage to be able to know that. So you need to be hands on. Whether that's electrical, that's planning, that is city, that's Ontario building code. Take the time and read it, man. And if you don't have the time, we have the tools. Like use all the LLMs to buy you some time. And do be active, do your research. Do your research. As in, like put the hours in it and also get the real codes. Like there are the pricing differs from the location. Like the price in St. Catharines or Niagara region is not going to be same as in Peterborough. Right. And the timing as well. So I think anyone who has done this before knows that your cults will not be same in June versus November. So because of the load or the people's appetite to take that job.
So that's one thing. And also we always go with proper contracts. So contracts as in it's not like you Know, good old school, hey, here's my cash I dam on you and I just fingers crossed, do this. It's more like the things that I do with my, you know, other hat where with my, you know, in tech landscape, if you're building an app and if you're working with like across the globe, different partners, you have your milestones defined. Right. So same here. You define your milestones, you check the work done and then you process your payments. And is it easy? No. But is it doable? Yes. Like if I could do it, you can do it as well. So it's not that that hard.
[00:33:07] Speaker D: So describe a little bit of some of the milestones that you would have in your conversion projects. I think that might help people to understand how you're able to do these projects with the efficiency that you have been.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So first things first. I think the most time consuming one is the figuring out the landscape, AKA getting codes, having an understanding of how long it's going to take to get the permits from drawings to, you know, from the material, everything. So it starts with planning, even planning. The planning is a phase, right.
And then once you do that, you start shortlisting the contractors, the people that you're going to work with.
And that's, I can say, probably the most critical element that's more important than the hiccups that you're going to have with the city or the hiccups with the bank during like they all happen. Like they're not unique to me, pretty sure.
But the most important thing is, is not the destination, I guess is the people you walk with, whether it be your contractor, whether it be your JV partner, whether. Because if you do not have a proper channel to communicate, if you're not speaking the same language, if they have different set expectations, if they see you as a disposable project, hey, I'm going to do a project with them and I'm done. So that's a different mindset versus hey, this is a long journey. So this is one step out of many. So that's how I ended up working with the same guy because I've been telling him, hey, this is the first project, but I'll do many.
He refused my first proposal in the first project because I told him, hey, I'm going to pay 100% after the rehab. And he said, well, of course no.
So and it took again couple years to be at a point 100%, but you know, 40% we can move some of the costs like I'll, you know, fund you until you do the refinance because right now we've completed a couple of them. Right?
And even with that trust in place, as I said, you do your good old school Excel spreadsheet with a detailed agreement like, here is your deposit, here is after demo, here is after refense. This is the timeline. These are the things on my plate. I like to manage the city myself. I have my architect as well. And as an engineer, I'm pretty familiar with the drawings and you know, all of them.
But the thing is, I like to handle the communication part because you'll be surprised the number of times one party is waiting from another party and these guys are waiting. It's just a delay for nothing, right? So other than that, I think it's just orchestration and project management, a bit of patience and believing in the fact that it's all going to be all right with a bit of delusional, I guess. So that's the success. Like be delusional.
[00:36:15] Speaker D: Be delusional. That's the first time I think we've heard that on the podcast. A Rob. I love it.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:24] Speaker D: No barriers, man.
No limits. I know, I, I get it, but it's true. I think like a lot of times we are the ones that set the limits on ourselves, that prevent us from doing things. I mean, when I was at 330 pounds, I set a goal to, to run a marathon. Like, it's not, that's not a reasonable, it's not a reasonable goal. Like I, you know, I've, you know, you, you set goals to, you know, climb mountains or multi day hikes or whatever your goal is, or do a basement conversion in two months.
Right. Or like those aren't reasonable goals for most people, but that's not how you're able to do the things that you, you do. And you surround yourself with people who have the same mentality. You tend to take that on. I think one of the guys that I know wants to be able to do an infill development in Toronto in, in months, which is like unreasonable.
But that doesn't mean that like, like I get inspired when I talk to him because I just like, I think, wow, this is a guy who's doing things differently than everybody else. And doesn't mean he's wrong, it just means that he wants to push the boundaries of what, what is acceptable. And I think you're doing that, you know, by getting these projects done in, in such a short amount of time. I, I remember doing this back in. I don't know if you remember this, Rob. Back in 2013 and 14, when I was doing like a bunch of like, conversion projects at the same time and, you know, getting them done for, in, in weeks.
But, like, it's hard. Like, you're managing a lot of different trades and you're making sure they're coming in at the same time as other trades are going out or, or you're having like a really good GC that's able to help you to do that.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: Right?
[00:38:28] Speaker D: So good, good on you. This is, that's great stuff. You, you must have, like. So you're doing all this yourself. You're good. Usually what happens is there's a point at which you need to get ex. Other money in order to be able to grow. And if you're looking at going to 5, 10, 12 units, what's your next, what's your next steps?
[00:38:55] Speaker B: Well, I think the most realistic next step is surrounding yourself with the people who have done it. So that's what I'm doing. In the last few meetings, I'm talking to people who were at the same place that I am right now. Like, I know people who had five, six properties. They were thinking about multifamily again two years ago, and I see now they have like, they have one, two and four units, one, like, you know what I'm talking about. And now I would probably connect with them and then see the financing side. I, again, I've sort of did my due diligence in terms of what are the conventional financing, what's the cmhc, what are the strategy, you exit with it, buy with it. Like, there are a couple of things, right? And also try to read a little bit about the future, which is not easy because we all know, like, the rental, like Ontario is interesting, man. So it's, it's, it's the weather and the season is changing too frequent, I guess so. Because what I want to do is usually when everybody is in greedy, then I am fearful, and when everybody's fearful, I'm greedy. So I cannot read the room in terms of. I feel like everybody's getting greedy. Should I be a little bit fearful in terms of multifamily? Because last year it was not like this. Two years ago it was not like this, but now it feels like, nah, there's a lot of multifamily is coming in. But again, I'm not going to let my overthinker because for almost, you know, almost entire my life up until two and a half years ago, myself, my wife and myself, we were overthinkers as two professors in engineering everything was analysis and analysis, like forgive me anything. I can find you 99 reasons to not to do that, right.
And then we invented something like Max.
So you, before you do something you drop all those overthinking. You say all right, do I have 51% of the knowledge? That's enough. Like I don't need to see all the exits. I don't need to see all 3 billion possibilities in parallel universes. Like do I have 51% off?
If is the information gain a little bit better than the equilibrium, Yay, I can go. So that mindset is I think not too bad in terms of action taker. Otherwise I know a lot of people because of the tech environments.
I'm surrounded with people who are making a little bit better than minimum wage, let's put this way.
And they can acquire way more than I can do.
Like they are financially in a good place. But what's holding them back is this action taking mindset. They're fearful for the reasons like for the things that's not going to happen. Let's put this way. So their risk tolerance is non existent.
So that's why that's that part. And coming back to the multi family stuff, hopefully I am like that's, that's in the horizon for 2026. But I think the first thing starts with a bit of, you know, mentorship communication to talk to the people who have done it.
But definitely like I want to say I'm a little bit, the least fun part of doing this thing is talking to the appraiser, trying to explain, hey, like this was in this state we put into that state, doesn't matter what you tell, it's all dictated by the house across the street.
That's a little bit, you know, that's the bottleneck in my process.
[00:42:34] Speaker D: So and I think that's the difference between that and multifamily. Like multifamily. When you're looking at the appraisal process, it's really about the net operating income of the building and the value is defined by that. And so I mean there are other factors. It's not just that. There's also the condition of the building, the location of the.
But it's not about the like you can have two buildings side by side and have a significant value difference.
So I think that's, that's it.
I would see too that like when you're getting into these bigger buildings too, you may consider raising capital as a component of that and finding partnerships and things like that to with like minded People who are interested in doing the same sort of thing as you, which is always possible. So are you open to that? Would. Would people reach out to you if they were interested in those type of possibilities?
[00:43:34] Speaker B: I think that's also a gradual state. Again, in my humble experience, which I am grateful for a lot of friends in Romaria, I have learned a lot from Alex about JVs and the books that they recommended. I'm. I'm a lifelong learner, and I believe that is not a binary state. It's not a zero. People don't trust you versus, oh, they trust you with everything. It's a gradual increase. Why?
In this journey, I've had friends, family, my inner circle being very supportful and skeptical in terms of, like, are you sure? Like, are you sure? Like, you were a healthy person? Like, you were making. You were. Okay, why are you doing this to yourself? Right. And then in time, it became like, how nerd. Like, how can you do this? Right.
[00:44:22] Speaker D: How did you end up with five properties?
[00:44:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. They're asking me, like, are you doing, like, are you smuggling fentanyl?
No, I wish. No, I don't. Right.
Anywho, like, that gradually builds, I guess, with the success. Right. So the potential is there. Yes. But you need to have a little bit of credential that you need to prove them. You have a Rolodex, you've done this. You have, you know, people, you have your people, you have your community.
I think that's my humble opinion in terms of working with partners, if they're going to be the silent partners. If you're raising money, I think the element of expertise or experience should be on the table. Otherwise, like, I'm doing, like, if I were the money partner, I would want to see, like, I wouldn't work with any, you know, tick tock expert who's just selling their knowledge. Right. It's more like, hey, the success is silent. Like, people who have done it, they're doing it. Like, I see them, they're silent. They.
Yeah, I think you got my point. And I feel like I'm getting there one step at a time. I know there is this.
I don't want to call it fomo, but there is a fear of being late. Is there?
Why?
I was already almost 40 when I read Rich Dad, Poor dad, and it hit me hard because his poor dad describes me like his actual dad is a professor.
No, I said like, no, this is, like, this is me. I don't want my son to talk behind me like this. Right.
That's. Yeah. Although you know, I don't 100 agree with what Kiyosaki says. Everything. But it hits hard when you spend four decades of life you dedicate to science and, you know, to humanity.
I don't know, maybe at some point I'm more like George Carlin. We, human beings are a little bit overrated.
[00:46:20] Speaker D: So, yeah, we're all learning. And I think the most important part is that we have the ability to continue to learn. And as long as we have an open mind, that, that really does help. And I can see that in, in you, that you really have an open mind and you're willing to continue to learn. So that I think that's important, especially when there's so many challenges.
[00:46:46] Speaker C: You know, what I think is great is that, you know, you're coming into a climate where a lot of people who are seasoned are saying, I'm just going to, like, I'm just going to, you know, sort of sit back, right? Like, it's not the same as it was before. At the same time, I remember Quinton talking about getting anchored right and slowing down because you, you, you're.
Last year this Property was only $300,000. Now it's $400,000. It's still cash flows, but I, I'm just unwilling to accept the idea that I'm going to pay $100,000 more than it was worth last year. You know, so a lot of people have that kind of mindset and it will stop them dead in their tracks.
So you need to work in the climate that you have. There isn't any other choice. Right. And I, and I just applaud that you've been able to, to recognize that and go out and be successful.
[00:47:45] Speaker D: And it's true, too, the anchoring works in the opposite direction as well. So if a Property was worth 500,000 and now it's worth 400,000, your brain panics and saying, is it going to go to 300,000?
Right. Whereas if, if the, if the numbers make sense at 400,000 and you can hold it for five years, 10 years, doesn't matter. But, but people get, get so stuck in because they look like they're day trading real estate and, and you can't tell who is really successful in the real estate game, if you like. I, I was talking to a guy out in Ottawa, Christian.
I haven't met him before, but I, you know, it was, He's a great, great guy. Good, interesting conversation. And he talked about something that I thought was kind of funny. It was like, you know, like, I'm Like, I was thinking about this and he was telling me, you know, there's people who are Facebook rich and Instagram rich, but that's. That's as far as they're gonna get.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: Like.
[00:48:48] Speaker D: And, you know, unfortunately, like, like, it's. It's about what you're.
What you are outside and not what you are inside. And.
[00:48:57] Speaker C: Yeah. And you know what the unfortunate part of that is? Is those people, that's fulfilling enough for them.
True.
[00:49:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:05] Speaker C: That's kind of scary to think about.
[00:49:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:49:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:10] Speaker D: This has been a very interesting conversation, for sure. Not, not like, just in different directions.
So this has been really cool.
Yeah.
[00:49:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So how would people reach out to you if they want to talk some more?
[00:49:25] Speaker B: Well, two things. I'm very active in LinkedIn. They can find me via LinkedIn. I usually respond to my LinkedIn pretty often.
Or we can share my email. They can reach out to me. I want to share my phone. But, you know, we have a lot of robocalls in Ontario, so email would be great.
[00:49:45] Speaker D: We'll put it. Yeah, we'll put it in the contacts.
[00:49:49] Speaker C: LinkedIn right here. So I'll put that in there as well. And yeah, we definitely appreciate you taking the time today. Thanks for coming on and sharing all that.
[00:49:58] Speaker B: My pleasure. My pleasure. And before wrapping up, I just wanted to. One thing resonated with me with the last part of the, you know, the Instagram reach. People, like, why we do this. Like, I showed one of my favorite books. The other favorite book is Simon Snek. Start with your why.
So, you know, we talked about. It's not easy. Had it been easy, everyone would have done it. It's hard. There are, you know, hard things about hard things and cool, cool, cool. But the burning desire to do that, like, you need to sort of having a burning desire to do this. And for me, it's not the money. Like, interestingly, I am, like, burning out my cash. I'm burning out my mental health, my physical health. Like, you, you had to.
You need to walk the walk. Not just talk, talk. Right. So anyone who's done it, they're.
They know what I mean.
But that why, for me, for us, is not the Excel spreadsheet that shows you how you're going to be wealthy in five years or 10 years.
It's more like, what's the definition of wealth to you? For us, it's financial independence that will allow us to do the things that we want to do. And it's not like being Elon rich. Right. It's more like we like traveling. We've been to a few number of countries. So I believe the world is a book and each country is a page.
So I want to read the other pages and I want to be able to do the things that I want to do. So that's why, as long as you have a meaningful why, I think how will come and somehow you'll be able to support that.
[00:51:33] Speaker D: Very cool.
[00:51:35] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
I think that that's one of the main things that we try to get across on this show is that real estate, like, is not easy, but it can fund a lifestyle. It can definitely do that. So Quentin is off, like constantly jet setting, you know?
[00:51:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I think it came 20 years to be lucky. Like, oh, you're too lucky. You're going to. You're too lucky. Yeah.
[00:52:02] Speaker D: Yes. And Rob is lucky to live in Costa Rica too. Right. So, like.
[00:52:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:08] Speaker D: So I mean, like, this is the results of real estate and, you know, investing in yourself and in the long term. Right. So. And what's the best way that people can get in touch with you, Rob?
[00:52:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Go over to Point Break Home CR on Facebook if you want to learn about what we're doing here and if you just want to reach out to me. Robertbreakthrough CA Quentin, you go to Quintinda.
[00:52:34] Speaker D: Souza.Com book a 15 minute call. Happy to chat about real estate or whatever you're working on and. Or come out to Durham REI meetings. Love to have you because it's a great place to visit.
[00:52:49] Speaker C: Beautiful.
[00:52:50] Speaker D: And stay.
[00:52:51] Speaker C: Lots of good conversations out there.
[00:52:53] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:52:54] Speaker C: All right, thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
[00:52:58] Speaker D: All right, thank you.
[00:52:59] Speaker B: Thank you, gentlemen.
